tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post5051052683618746377..comments2023-10-25T05:30:54.507-04:00Comments on Oh Get A Grip!: You Can't Write ThatAshe Barkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03390519279886657608noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-32747415807935816762013-09-20T06:59:18.729-04:002013-09-20T06:59:18.729-04:00a post on author intention would be interesting. o...a post on author intention would be interesting. one person's disgust is another person's arousal. just ask Georges Bataille. he wrote about vomit, shit etc...in an erotic context. it was both disgusting & arousing for some. ;) Amanda Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09059621442042833693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-72960078121468365302013-09-19T15:44:17.009-04:002013-09-19T15:44:17.009-04:00Flowers in the Attic has been in the blogosphere-n...Flowers in the Attic has been in the blogosphere-news lately because it has a new "New Adult"-style cover.<br /><br />Authorial intention is such an interesting topic... we'll have to blog about it some day. Like, if I were to say, "It was my intention for Adam and Sheree to DISGUST you, not arouse you," does that change the reading experience? <br /><br />When a novel is written in a literary tone, we say portrayals of incest and abuse inform the story, they're just facts and events, they're not titillating. But you're sooo right: the reader decides what's arousing, not the author.Giselle Renardehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15955755448116234634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-86591025887500811632013-09-19T15:09:00.306-04:002013-09-19T15:09:00.306-04:00Ah, yes, I see. Sorry! (:v>Ah, yes, I see. Sorry! (:v>Jeremy Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01980177431018869829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-15516461790051523362013-09-19T14:55:01.802-04:002013-09-19T14:55:01.802-04:00Maybe V.C. Andrews Flowers in the attic would be b...Maybe V.C. Andrews Flowers in the attic would be banned today. I remember wanking to that book as a kid. You really can't control what people will find arousing. There is a non con incest scene in a Canadian literary novel that totally arouses me. It wasn't meant that way. For any corporate entity to try to censor or control cultural taste is abhorrent to me. Thankfully Bastille's Story of the Eye is still free online. Amanda Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09059621442042833693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-59476354498473078512013-09-19T14:48:13.426-04:002013-09-19T14:48:13.426-04:00They seem to apply the rule unevenly.They seem to apply the rule unevenly.Amanda Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09059621442042833693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-67269850476303873432013-09-19T13:45:02.559-04:002013-09-19T13:45:02.559-04:00Whoops! Meant Jeremy.Whoops! Meant Jeremy.Daddy Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927663248424944119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-54902267079609197802013-09-19T13:44:01.497-04:002013-09-19T13:44:01.497-04:00Got your point, JP. :>) Just wanted to present ...Got your point, JP. :>) Just wanted to present a tangential thought. Daddy Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927663248424944119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-89453070396188746032013-09-19T11:48:12.726-04:002013-09-19T11:48:12.726-04:00Reminds me of a past topic at Oh Get A Grip! but c...Reminds me of a past topic at Oh Get A Grip! but can't recall exactly what it was... Sex and Punishment? Is it okay to be thoroughly bad if there are ramifications? (Not that Amazon's reads anything they ban)Giselle Renardehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15955755448116234634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-83885841251987569772013-09-19T11:45:03.783-04:002013-09-19T11:45:03.783-04:00Can't wait to read your post! I like this topi...Can't wait to read your post! I like this topic.Giselle Renardehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15955755448116234634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-27303623447228738762013-09-19T11:43:32.594-04:002013-09-19T11:43:32.594-04:00Yup, you hit it on the head, there, Sacchi. I kno...Yup, you hit it on the head, there, Sacchi. I know I'm not the only erotica writer who has experienced increased perviness over the years. As readers' thresholds get higher, writers put out more explicit, kinkier, and more taboo work. It meets and external demand, but also an internal drive that comes from writing about sex every goddamn day. (God, it gets tiring! LOL)Giselle Renardehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15955755448116234634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-44484373479899910852013-09-19T11:31:49.374-04:002013-09-19T11:31:49.374-04:00Taboo subjects have an appeal because of being tab...Taboo subjects have an appeal because of being taboo, and so many aspects of sex have emerged into the safe zone of acceptance that it gets harder and harder to write erotica that provides that transgressive "frisson" readers yearn for. "In olden days, a glimpse of stocking..." well, you know what I mean.<br /><br />I do find it ludicrous that Amazon will accept all those "milking" bits but draw the line at incest. I don't see incest as all that big a deal, or inherently more sexy than any other pairing, or tripling, or whatever--maybe I should read those books of yours, Giselle!-- but as long as it keeps on being taboo, it apparently fills a need. I really don't know what we erotica writers will do if society reaches a point where nothing about sex is a source of pleasurable guilt.<br /> Sacchi Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10801164916418570059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-6734311727840799952013-09-19T11:28:00.573-04:002013-09-19T11:28:00.573-04:00That's no doubt true, Daddy X, though my point...That's no doubt true, Daddy X, though my point actually wasn't about labeling equivalent content differently, but about actual differences in content (i.e., the joyous erotica sex vs. the joyless lit-fic sex, to paint it in overly broad strokes).Jeremy Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01980177431018869829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-92073016535959621372013-09-19T11:21:19.147-04:002013-09-19T11:21:19.147-04:00Jeremy has a good point. If we label our work as &...Jeremy has a good point. If we label our work as 'literary' or 'mainstream', we can actually get away with more than if we write 'erotica'. After all, Nicholson Baker got away with 17 year-olds having voyeuristic sex with an adult in The Fermata. Daddy Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927663248424944119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-46058981077405694052013-09-19T11:12:27.762-04:002013-09-19T11:12:27.762-04:00My characters do what they like, and often they...My characters do what they like, and often they'll be up to something that crosses a line somewhere, but I do find it challenging to toe that line. Although I've never written an incest piece (I will make sure it's third cousins) our early sexual experiments were often with friends and relatives who slept over for a night. These stories and experiences are perhaps our most poignant but we're hit with a double whammy with both age and incest restrictions. I guess we write these stories for ourselves until conventions evolve. <br /><br />Oh, I could go on and on about this, but I just now realized an idea for my own blog next Wednesday, and don't want to post it twice.<br /><br />And did love your tongue-in -cheek ending, Giselle. Daddy Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927663248424944119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-75135432519885391822013-09-19T11:12:22.595-04:002013-09-19T11:12:22.595-04:00Amanda, my books have been BANNED by Amazon. Like,...Amanda, my books have been BANNED by Amazon. Like, "You can't sell that here" banned.Giselle Renardehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15955755448116234634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-69957900152523046662013-09-19T11:10:15.124-04:002013-09-19T11:10:15.124-04:00Regardless of how one feels about the corporate ce...Regardless of how one feels about the corporate censorship of any particular theme, I think it's important for us to understand that it isn't the topic per se that's the issue, it's the book's attitude and orientation toward the topic. So, to take the case of consenting-adults incest: Amazon presumably doesn't censor it in lit fic, even if it's given a sexually explicit treatment, because it's not perceived as celebrating the incest. The incest is just part of a story (and is generally, I'm guessing, shown in a negative light). By contrast, erotica with a consenting-adults-incest theme ultimately relishes it as a centrally joyful, positive experience for the characters (that, after all, is the main point of the book's existence)—and that, presumably, is the issue for the people who think consenting-adults-incest erotica should be "beyond the pale" in the literary marketplace. I don't agree with them, but I don't think the fact that non-erotica genres cover this same topic—and I'm not picking on you Amanda; this is a talking point I've seen repeatedly—is an argument that really acknowledges what's at issue. (And I imagine a non-erotic, completely non-explicit HEA romance about adult siblings in love might also be banned.) Not to compare consenting-adults-incest to hate crimes—obviously!—but if someone wanted to ban a novel whose author seemed to be rejoicing in the racial hate crimes depicted in the book, that wouldn't mean the same person should logically want to ban all the novels in which hate crimes occurred in the course of the plot but were clearly intended to be seen as horrific events.<br /><br />And if Amazon's rule of thumb has to do with banning works that "glorify" acts that might technically be illegal in many parts of the United States, then an erotic celebration of consenting-adults incest—or, for that matter, a happy tale about twenty-year-olds responsibly drinking beer—might be banned, where unhappy fictional portrayals of those same topics would not be. Regardless of how one might feel about such a blanket rule of thumb for literature—or even some of the real-life laws themselves—I think it's important to recognize the implicit anatomy of a gatekeeper's criteria.Jeremy Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01980177431018869829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-81487916556057761572013-09-19T07:06:03.674-04:002013-09-19T07:06:03.674-04:00actually you can get incest erotica for the Kindle...actually you can get incest erotica for the Kindle. <br />i always remember the taboos this way: bestiality, pedophilia, necrophilia, rape.i know why publishers can't publish such work but the idea that readers are going to take fiction literally is disheartening to me. i don't believe any subject should be off limits for writers; in literary fiction incest & rape are written about quite often. actually incest is a very common topic in Canadian literary erotica...that & winter. interesting post, Giselle. Amanda Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09059621442042833693noreply@blogger.com