tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post1924517644579585436..comments2023-10-25T05:30:54.507-04:00Comments on Oh Get A Grip!: Questless and RestlessAshe Barkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03390519279886657608noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-89217576173292524592014-10-23T11:01:02.579-04:002014-10-23T11:01:02.579-04:00I wasn't clear enough about the Yale study. Th...I wasn't clear enough about the Yale study. Their point was just what you're saying; there are reasons for human behavior, but too often we extrapolate that perception of pattern to thinking that "everything happens for a reason." Well, there's the "butterfly wing" effect, so that in one sense everything does affect everything else, but that (I think) is another matter. The example used in the study report was of the man badly injured in the Boston Marathon bombing who met his now-wife, a nurse, while being treated in the hospital. There's a clear cause-and-effect there, but not the way he interpreted it, saying that the reason he was injured was in order to meet her. I cringed when I first read that, well before I saw this article. . Sacchi Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10801164916418570059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-4843609537860527322014-10-22T22:57:53.454-04:002014-10-22T22:57:53.454-04:00Lisabet's made a key distinction here. I total...Lisabet's made a key distinction here. I totally believe that everyone has a reason for what he or she does. Pondering that is the path to compassion, I think. On the other hand, I am driven to distraction by the platitude that "everything happens for a reason." In my observation, that one is all too often used as a bludgeon to tell someone else how to feel or to provide empty comfort where perhaps shared grief would be a better response. <br /><br />I do think of myself in a creator relationship with the stories I write, and I have to say it's a scary vision to have of a God. My reasons, the things that make stuff happen in my stories, are all about what's interesting—not about what's pleasant or fair. I suppose, in that sense, everything might well happen for a reason. Too often, though, there's a conflation occurring—that the reason is in line with justice or karma or something. I'm not giving my characters justice, though. I'm experimenting on them, trying to work things out about myself and the world. <br /><br />I do think we have emotional muscles that need stimulation. Part of what we like about genre, I think, is that we like that stimulation to have different flavors. In horror, we often see quests doomed to fail. In epic fantasy, we often see quests that "work out" according to an underlying sense of destiny.<br /><br />Very thought-provoking post, Sacchi. I could go on and on. Thanks for this. Annabeth Leonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07455191827664110878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-12866945088598371922014-10-20T22:32:44.517-04:002014-10-20T22:32:44.517-04:00There are a whole slew of idea threads here, Sacch...There are a whole slew of idea threads here, Sacchi, especially for a relatively short post. I think I see a semantic confusion, though. The conviction that everything "happens for a reason" is not at all the same concept as "everyone has a reason for what he or she does". One postulates a sort of grand pattern, while the other is talking about motivation.<br /><br />And speaking of motivation, there's quite a bit of recent psychological research that suggests many of our stated reasons for our actions are in fact post hoc justifications. In some cases at least, we act, then try to explain why. An uncomfortable notion, for me, but supported by at least some experimental evidence (though many human psych experiments are way too contrived to be convincing, to me at least).<br /><br />Pulling this into the realm of fiction - sometimes our characters may not in fact understand their own reasons. I find such characters more interesting than those who are sure of themselves. Unreliable narrators we are - even when talking to ourselves!Lisabet Saraihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162514190572269660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-68125729726429153342014-10-20T18:45:51.010-04:002014-10-20T18:45:51.010-04:00I think the quest--big picture quest--is to deal e...I think the quest--big picture quest--is to deal efficiently with whatever the voyage throws at us. Our knowledge of ourselves and others will ideally bring out a logic of reason we can comfortably live by. We just need to teach ourselves how to learn from our mistakes.<br /><br />Fiction, on the other hand, has to walk a story line, not necessarily a linear line, but a story that had all the wild swings between the predictable and the unexpected, as real life does, may not read as believable to a reader.Daddy Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927663248424944119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-38894114948443589722014-10-20T17:17:39.377-04:002014-10-20T17:17:39.377-04:00JP, Game of Thrones makes me think that the thrill...JP, Game of Thrones makes me think that the thrill of the quest may be much more important (to readers, at least) than the outcome.Sacchi Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10801164916418570059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-74840057171794151002014-10-20T16:59:14.188-04:002014-10-20T16:59:14.188-04:00I'm reading Game of Thrones as we speak - at p...I'm reading Game of Thrones as we speak - at page 3200 of 4700 pages and a cast of thousands! How Martin kept track of all these characters boggles my mind. It truly is a masterwork of fantasy fiction and like you said Sacchi doesn't end well for most of the questors! An amazing read. I was stunned when Ned Stark was executed - I thought he was the one to carry the story through to the end - and when Jamie Lannister turned out to be so cold blooded - Martin certainly doesn't play by the rules - not that he should of course.JPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10305127219838784688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-79435278044239118532014-10-20T14:25:27.384-04:002014-10-20T14:25:27.384-04:00Good point, Spencer. I'm somewhat familiar wit...Good point, Spencer. I'm somewhat familiar with Joseph Campbell, and some others who have done this sort of work. Well-researched fiction like Mary Renault's The Bull from the Sea and The King Must Die also dig into the histories behind the stories and the timeless role these stories play.Sacchi Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10801164916418570059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-40413309359162012032014-10-20T13:57:45.398-04:002014-10-20T13:57:45.398-04:00Sacchi:
I think our brains are hard wired to learn...Sacchi:<br />I think our brains are hard wired to learn and retain life principals through stories. Usta be it was all mouth to ear, now we put pen and paper in between and lately e-bits. If you are at all familiar with the late Joseph Campbell, his life work was deconstructing the stories of cultures and civilizations, long gone. One of his works, the most readable for me, "Hero with a Thousand Faces" explored the hero myth in ancient and modern stories. It inspired this guy, George Lucas, to make some films about a kid on a hero's quest. What was the name of that movie again....<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15484640447109164744noreply@blogger.com