tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post9218275913676692061..comments2023-10-25T05:30:54.507-04:00Comments on Oh Get A Grip!: Before the FallAshe Barkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03390519279886657608noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-22947631807531353812015-03-27T08:36:35.179-04:002015-03-27T08:36:35.179-04:00Hi, Annabeth,
I wrote this piece wondering what y...Hi, Annabeth,<br /><br />I wrote this piece wondering what you would think of it. ;^) As I indicated in earlier comments, our prior discussion of "natural submissives" fed into this vignette.<br /><br />I didn't expect anger, but I can see the validity of all your points. I didn't delve too deeply into these characters. I wanted to show the paradox of pride about being humble. <br /><br />Certainly I wouldn't want to have anything to do with this Master. <br /><br />Thanks for giving me such a gut reaction.Lisabet Saraihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162514190572269660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-29232869957162424862015-03-26T02:03:36.470-04:002015-03-26T02:03:36.470-04:00I'm really interested in the next steps for th...I'm really interested in the next steps for the viewpoint character. I think what you describe would be a great story!Annabeth Leonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07455191827664110878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-25576732299297510062015-03-26T02:02:34.306-04:002015-03-26T02:02:34.306-04:00Definitely a well-written piece, and it pissed me ...Definitely a well-written piece, and it pissed me off so much. As we've discussed, I hate the natural submissive trope, but I think I hate this master even more. I see nothing responsible about his abandonment and the cruelty with which he takes away the viewpoint character's collar and slaps it right onto someone else. I feel like the story illustrates very well why it's so necessary to maintain a sense of self no matter what BDSM games are being played. <br /><br />To be clear, none of what I'm saying is intended to criticize the writing or the piece itself. I read the piece as a powerful critique of a bunch of BDSM erotica tropes, not least of which is the general inhumanity that's often built into the characters in these stories. And the new girl—she's another trope, the ingenue. I feel bad for her future, because I'm pretty sure that jerk is going to drop her the moment she's not so virginal. I've seen way too many predators of his type. <br /><br />Because the "natural submissive" character isn't actually perfect, I don't think it can be true that there's nothing left for her to do as a submissive, or that there's nothing interesting left about her. To me, that plays into and critiques more awful tropes about women—in particular, the idea that a woman can get somehow "used up." So I lose respect for the dominant character because he can't see or find her as a person or responsibly admit that he doesn't know how to play with her. <br /><br />Anyway, given how angry I get over BDSM, it's funny how much time I spend thinking about it and participating in it! Thanks for a thought-provoking piece. Annabeth Leonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07455191827664110878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-14541816674254971032015-03-24T06:49:07.789-04:002015-03-24T06:49:07.789-04:00Thanks, Suz!Thanks, Suz!Lisabet Saraihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162514190572269660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-83646668875347500372015-03-24T06:48:53.869-04:002015-03-24T06:48:53.869-04:00As I mentioned above, I never considered the next ...As I mentioned above, I never considered the next steps for this woman. But now, if I try to imagine spinning this out, I see her finding a different kind of Master, one who recognizes her pride as in some sense antithetical to submission, who teaches her to love herself because of her imperfections. (Sounds like it turns into a romance LOL.)Lisabet Saraihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162514190572269660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-48516254494404352082015-03-24T06:46:48.215-04:002015-03-24T06:46:48.215-04:00Hi, Jean,
I hadn't really thought about what ...Hi, Jean,<br /><br />I hadn't really thought about what comes next for poor Simone. Perhaps she would learn some sort of lesson and move to a new plane of achievement.<br /><br />Some dominants, I know, begin as submissives. Indeed, I have one story (Mastering Maya) with a character of that sort. However, it's difficult for me to imagine Simone ever wanting to play that role.<br />Lisabet Saraihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162514190572269660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-44585232449113917582015-03-23T00:03:42.398-04:002015-03-23T00:03:42.398-04:00Excellent writing! Fabulous!Excellent writing! Fabulous!Suz dehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17236960359162948178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-3850195321205794962015-03-18T20:15:50.613-04:002015-03-18T20:15:50.613-04:00Hi Lisabet!
I have to admit that's an astonis...Hi Lisabet!<br /><br />I have to admit that's an astonishing spin on a subject I barely understand. You wonder what will become of the girl. And now this girl who is set free but will probably come back to some other level of submission in order to win him back. There are wheels within wheels here of a submission which is hard to imagine unless we have that nature within us.<br /><br />GarceGarceushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11160407485298015371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-9416076957262173132015-03-17T23:46:08.073-04:002015-03-17T23:46:08.073-04:00Lisabet, this piece illustrates something I've...Lisabet, this piece illustrates something I've wondered about for years. Everywhere outside the BDSM community(ies), increasing skill is supposed to be rewarded with promotions or graduation. The student eventually becomes a teacher. So if the goal of a sub is to please her Master perfectly, and his goal is to train her to do so, where do they each go after they reach their goal? Some kind of change seems inevitable for the Dom and sub in your story, but the way he simply sets her free looks heartless and irresponsible. Her pride seems justified. I can see her as a trainer in the world of Laura Antoniou's Marketplace series. With luck, there would be a talent scout in the dungeon in your piece who would claim her for other duties. :)Jean Robertahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08805088081675965859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-13221407992591961332015-03-17T22:46:05.862-04:002015-03-17T22:46:05.862-04:00Hi, Sacchi,
I'm not in "the lifestyle&qu...Hi, Sacchi,<br /><br />I'm not in "the lifestyle" but I have felt the *desire* to be perfect in order to please the dominant.. I think it's a powerful motivation in at least some BDSM paths. Furthermore, the "perfect submissive" has become a bit of a cliche in BDSM erotic romance. (I think I've even seen books with that title.) So I wanted to explore what that would mean, what it would feel like from the sub's side, and what the unintended consequences might be.<br /><br />This is also a follow-on to my post on the ERWA blog last month, where I talked about how annoyed I get at the "natural sub" trope, and how I was considering writing a character who was anything but. We only see her from the outside in this piece, of course, but the Dom is still drawn to her.<br /><br />If I were in HER head, I suspect that she too would crave perfection. And would feel incredibly frustrated to be so incompetent in delivering it.<br />Lisabet Saraihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162514190572269660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-87048469009908841012015-03-17T11:21:59.509-04:002015-03-17T11:21:59.509-04:00There are some contexts in which perfection can be...There are some contexts in which perfection can be a dead-end road, and D/s is one of them. I've known Dominants (well, one or two) who got great pleasure out of correcting, training, and punishing, and I've known subs who knew enough to provide occasion for all of these. I can't say that I understand these attitudes on a gut level, but I know they're not uncommon, and I can understand enough to respect them in people I value. Sacchi Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10801164916418570059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-72790546420415702772015-03-17T11:00:26.748-04:002015-03-17T11:00:26.748-04:00In any case, a very strong and successful piece, L...In any case, a very strong and successful piece, Lisabet. <br /><br />I've just started reading Georges Bataille's 1956 work on Erotism which delves into a lot that's going on here. He writes pretty dense stuff on transgression and pain. His work was largely ridiculed in his time by other French thinkers like Sartre, but his basic premises are getting more recognition nowadays.Daddy Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927663248424944119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-57768025196061944082015-03-17T07:16:12.946-04:002015-03-17T07:16:12.946-04:00Interesting question! I don't think the pride ...Interesting question! I don't think the pride helps much. By the end of the story, she'd be happier as the awkward newbie sub. Lisabet Saraihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162514190572269660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9156334464585894857.post-34184494875757262652015-03-16T21:01:26.066-04:002015-03-16T21:01:26.066-04:00Does pride contribute to or does it mitigate the s...Does pride contribute to or does it mitigate the sense of loss? Seems a bit of both.Daddy Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927663248424944119noreply@blogger.com